Thanks to the chapter’s sponsor: Pichu ($150)
There was a man who was confined inside a small room.
A pleasantly soft bed with white sheets. White walls, a blue ceiling, and a wooden floor. The room’s lavatory and the modest clothes provided were clean.
But this was a prison. A place to confine the man, who was a criminal.
The man had originally been hired by a slave trader who had a store in the Alcrem Duchy. He had taken his work seriously, earned the trust of his employer and colleagues, and his pay hadn’t been bad, either. The problem was that the slave trader had bought and sold illegal slaves… people who had been kidnapped by bandits.
The man had been involved in his employer’s work despite being aware that his trade was illegal. He hadn’t felt good about it, but he had thought that this was just how the world was.
He had never felt a desire to save the people who were being sold, nor report his employer to the guards. If he did that, the organization would have simply made him disappear.
The people being sold were just unlucky. Surely it was better for them to be sold to the slave trader than be killed. By conducting this illegal slave trade, the slave trader and his employees were saving the lives of people who would otherwise have been killed by bandits.
The man had told himself this when he had first began working for the slave trader, but he eventually became numb to it and found himself able to sleep soundly without needing to tell himself such things.
But one day, the man, his employer, and several of his colleagues had been abducted and their faces torn off. Part of the man’s duties was to act as a bodyguard for the slave trader, and he had some confidence in his ability to fight, but he had been unable to put up any resistance against the black-skinned Goblins.
The man had fainted from the extreme pain of having his face skinned by a knife, and when he came to, he had found himself in this prison.
The man had been happy that his face had been restored to normal and that he hadn’t been killed, but that was when the days of hell had begun.
He was forced to drink or injected with unknown drugs every day, causing him to suffer from visual and auditory hallucinations. On days when his hallucinations were less severe, he would be allowed outside to ‘exercise,’ where he was forced to spend half the day digging a hole and the other half of the day filling it back in.
On days where he was less fortunate, he was used as a ‘teaching material,’ where students would use him to practice skinning faces and as a subject for lessons in torture. Once they were done, he would be healed back to normal and was given food and time to sleep, so he would not die… no, so that he could not die.
He was being treated like a criminal slave by some organization. The man understood that. But it would have been better for him if he had been sent to the slave mines that he had heard of instead.
Around the time when the man began to desire death, he was brought to a large room instead of his usual prison room or the experimental facility.
Inside that large room was a thin, bearded man named Luciliano. The man could also feel the presence of various creatures in the darkness further inside the room.
“Number 27, how is your physical condition?” Luciliano asked, addressing the man by his subject number.
“… It’s relatively good today. What are you going to inject me with this time, you insane bastard?” said the man in desperation.
But he had no will to oppose being referred to as ‘Number 27.’
“That is good,” said Luciliano, looking back down at the papers in his hand. “Today, I would like you to participate in a new experiment. You should be happy. You have passed our evaluations. Depending on the results of this experiment, you will be set free.”
“… What?” muttered the man in disbelief, glaring at Luciliano with suspicion in his eyes.
Luciliano smirked. “Among the experimental subjects in this facility, you are one of the better ones. You grew up in a poor orphanage, and we are inclined to think that if you had not chosen to join the company run by that slave trader, you might have lived an honest life. So, if you cooperate with us in this experiment, then your freedom is… well, not guaranteed, but we may allow you to live an ordinary life while we keep you under our observation.”
“… So, what kind of no-good experiment are you planning to do?” asked Number 27, looking at Luciliano suspiciously.
Deals that were too good to be true naturally came with a trap. In his line of work, he had heard countless stories of criminal slaves being lured by sweet-sounding offers of being set free and then being made to do dangerous work during which they were all but certain to die.
“I’m happy to hear that you are willing to participate,” said Luciliano, his eyes shining with a mad curiosity, seeming to take no notice of Number 27’s reluctance. “I must do this now… This is my chance, as Borkus is not here to sabotage my research and prevent its progress by dragging me to Dungeons and Devil’s Nests to accompany him for physical training. Well then, let us begin the experiment right away. So, what kind of women do you prefer?”
“Huh?” uttered Number 27, unable to immediately comprehend Luciliano’s words.
“I am asking about your preferences in women. Appearance, figure, height, and race. It will be impossible to accommodate them all, but I have made preparations to accommodate them to the best of my ability,” said Luciliano. “Ah, but due to the nature of the experiment, I’m afraid I cannot accommodate your tastes if you prefer men.”
“W-why do I have to tell you that?! Are you stupid?!” said Number 27, completely bewildered.
“Why, you ask? Because of this,” said Luciliano, snapping his fingers.
From the darkness further inside the room, several women emerged. They were in their teens or their twenties, and many of them were human, but there were some Dwarves, Beast-kin, Titans, and Elves as well.
However, Number 27 let out a muffled scream.
The women were letting out low, quiet groans.
Their eyes were dull and lifeless, and their skin was completely pale. Several of them had stitches on their necks and torsos from having different body parts attached. These women were all Zombies.
“I-I see. You’re planning to feed me to these things,” Number 27 muttered under his breath.
What was about to take place was an experiment that doubled as an execution. There was no doubt that this experiment was to investigate whether there would be any changes to the Zombies if they were to consume Number 27 after he was injected with some special drug, or perhaps it would investigate what kind of Undead men turned into.
That was what Number 27 thought.
He would be eaten alive by Zombies. It would be a considerably gruesome, pain-filled death, but perhaps it was better than continuing to be pumped full of drugs and used as a practice dummy for torture lessons.
And Number 27 had condemned countless innocent people to circumstances similar to the ones he found himself in. This was a fitting end. It was almost comical.
“My preferences, huh. I don’t care how many there are, they can take as much as they like!” said Number 27, thinking that he would die faster if he were eaten by dozens of Zombies rather than just one or two.
“That is rather manly of you,” said Luciliano. “However, you cannot have all of them, so let us ask the women their preferences, and… Hmm, seven are interested. Well, that is fine, I suppose.”
The seven Zombies who had raised their hands stepped forward. They approached Number 27, grabbed him and led him towards the other side of the room. A spotlight turned on, illuminating a king size bed that had previously been hidden in the dark.
The Zombies pushed Number 27 onto the bed and began undressing him.
“… Huh? W-what are they planning to do?” he asked, bewildered by the Zombies’ strange behavior.
“What are they planning to do, you say? We are conducting a reproduction experiment between you and them,” Luciliano told him. “Did you misunderstand, perhaps?”
“R-reproduction?! By reproduction, you mean that?! You mean that, don’t you?!”
“Of course. In other words, you will be creating children.”
“You bloody fool! There’s no way Zombies can make kids!”
Because science was underdeveloped in this world and microscopes did not exist, the process of reproduction was not fully understood like it was on Earth.
However, it was still known that one could not have children by planting seeds in a dead field.
However, there were known exceptions. Live-dead – corpses that were forcibly kept alive after their deaths – were known to be able to bear children. They were considered to be a form of Undead, but processes such as the beating of the heart and respiration continued through magic, so their organs were alive.
However, the hands removing Number 27’s clothes were cold, their lips approaching him were pale, and the pupils gazing at him were lifeless. For some reason, the putrid smell of corpses was absent, but these were completely and unmistakably Zombies.
There was no way that children could be created through intercourse with these creatures.
“‘Bloody fool?!’” shouted Luciliano, outraged for some reason. “Do you mean to mock the sorcery techniques of me and my master??! Animal experiments for reproduction between Undead and living creatures have already succeeded! And in human experiments with subjects other than you, even though no children have been born yet because not enough time has passed yet, progress is good! You are cooperating in this experiment not for us to investigate whether or not it is possible, but for us to gain more detailed data! Given all of this, I am not a ‘bloody fool!’ Call me ‘insane bastard,’ ‘crazy,’ or ‘mad’ instead!”
“W-what the hell is this guy saying?!” Number 27 said, feeling a newfound fear towards Luciliano.
Nothing Luciliano was saying made sense; Number 27 couldn’t understand anything.
But even during all of this, Number 27’s clothes were removed by the Zombies and they pressed their cold bodies against him… and he gave a piercing scream of terror.
“No need to make such a fuss,” said Luciliano. “Moments earlier, you said that you did not care how many there are; where did your bravado go? Surely you are not a virgin… No, perhaps that is possible?”
Luciliano felt a little sorry for Number 27, believing that he had become overly excited when faced with a large number of half-naked women and boasted too much.
He was aware that his perception of things was very different from that of most people. However, before he became Vandalieu’s apprentice, he had led a normal, if not a little dull, social life in human society. He was capable of imagining what other people were thinking.
… However, there was no guarantee that his imagination of their psychology was accurate.
“It will be no good if the subject loses his confidence as a man and becomes impotent for psychological reasons. Let’s prepare some aphrodisiacs,” said Luciliano, pausing his observations and report-writing to prepare drugs to administer to Number 27.
After that, he received news that Vandalieu had arrived at the Demon King’s Continent and the underground world that existed beneath it, and that he had acquired the corpses of a new Colossus, Elder Dragon, and the Starfish Beast-King. Thus, his interest shifted away from Number 27’s experiment to these new developments.
The experiment continued, but perhaps it was fortunate for Number 27 that Luciliano was not observing him while he did the deed.
Meanwhile, in the Demon King’s Continent. In a base that had been constructed beforehand and disguised to be invisible from the outside, the defensive force led by the Boulder Colossus Gorn gathered to organize their defense.
“… We have accomplished our goal. We prevented them from approaching the goddess and protected her.”
Gorn had organized a defensive force in the Demon King’s Continent to protect Botin from Vandalieu on Alda’s orders. His objective was to prevent Vandalieu from devouring Botin’s soul while she was sealed away and unable to move.
Thus, even though they had been unable to defeat Vandalieu or even inflict any meaningful damage to him while he escaped, they had not been defeated.
In fact, they had succeeded in driving him away, so they could say that they were victorious and had achieved their goal.
But when Gorn looked at the state of his allies, it was difficult to say that they were enjoying a sense of achievement and victory.
“Gah, my legs…”
“Stop whining over losing a leg or two! I’m going to reattach them now!”
“Harinsheb is on death’s door! He will die if we do not somehow put his shell back together!”
“Ah, ugh… Gah…”
Due to Vandalieu’s ‘World-piercing Hollow Cannon,’ the efforts of Borkus, Mikhail and the others, as well as the attacks of the Demon King Familiars, many of the Colossi and Elder Dragons had been wounded, and the Shellfish Beast-King Harinsheb was particularly heavily wounded, on the verge of death after his shell was broken to pieces.
Demigods’ bodies were tough and had the vitality that one would expect of them, given their size. However, few demigods had the regenerative ability to regrow entire limbs in a single day.
Of course, they would regenerate eventually, but… letting them heal naturally would take years, decades, or even longer in some cases.
That was why Gorn and the others were doing their utmost to treat the wounded. The wounded consumed the meat of monsters that had been hunted in order to replenish the blood and muscle they had lost. Their severed limbs were being sewn back on and their wounds were bandaged using enormous pieces of seaweed with medicinal properties.
To make up for the fact that they had been late to the battle, the God of War Horns Sirius and the God of War Drums Zepaon were performing songs that stimulated the wounded demigods’ natural healing processes.
Sirius, who was performing using a flute because his favorite war horn had been destroyed by Vandalieu, paused his song.
“… With this, everyone should be fully recovered in a month’s time, except for Harinsheb,” he said to Gorn.
“Can Harinsheb not be saved, then?” Gorn asked.
“He won’t die. But we can’t fix his broken shell. It will be decades or maybe a century before he becomes able to fight like he could before.”
“I see… We will have to ask for the support of Harinsheb’s children.”
Mortal worshippers could ascend to become familiar spirits or heroic spirits after death, who could later become gods. But no matter how devotedly they worshiped demigods, they could not become demigods.
As demigods possessed physical bodies, they produced more companions and family members not by having their believers ascend, but by having children.
The Colossus God Zerno, the Dragon-Emperor God Marduke, and the Beast-God Ganpaplio had created the generation of demigods that were their children using the energy of nature and their own blood and flesh. Gorn, the Colossus of Roaring Thunder Brateo, the Great Ocean Dragon God Madroza, Harinsheb, and Repobilis had been born in this way as well.
However, Gorn and the others could not create their own children in the mysterious ways that the great gods such as Zerno did. In the age of the gods, there were incidents where they mated with gods to have children. Thus, demigods held a strong pride in their bloodlines.
It was Vida who had made use of that. She had mated with demigods, giving birth not to new demigods, but races of people such as Titans, Beast-kin, and Drakonids.
That was precisely why many demigods were disgusted by the actions of Vida and those who had sided with her. She had not only given birth to races with inferior strength to their parents, but also given her body even to evil gods of the Demon King’s army. Even though these evil gods had become allies in battle, the demigods were angered, feeling that the pride they had in their bloodlines had been disgraced.
Gorn was one such Colossus, but right now, he closed off his anger for Vida so that he could do everything he could to rebuild his fighting forces.
“We will need help not only from Harinsheb’s children, but from Repobilis’s children as well. Their eldest children are governing their families in their place, so mobilizing them will be difficult. It would be a large problem if the children were to turn into monsters after being separated from the influence of their Beast-Kings,” said Sirius.
“That is true, but… we will have to make up for it with numbers, so let us ask multiple of their younger children to come,” said Gorn.
Repobilis and Harinsheb had many descendants, but each had only one child that were as powerful as their Beast-King parents – one child each who had survived the battle against the Demon King Guduranis alongside their parents.
Their other children were young and had been born after the battle against the Demon King; they were too weak to be considered demigods. One such child could not fill either of the gaps left by Repobilis and Harinsheb.
“In that case, how about calling for aid from Peria-sama’s guards?” Sirius suggested.
In the sacred land where the Goddess of Water and Knowledge Peria slumbered, there was another force of guards that was around as large as Gorn’s. The Goddess of Flow Pargtarta was unlikely to move from her post, but the Elder Dragons and Colossi with her would be immediately useful as fighters.
“No, that is risky. There is no guarantee that Vandalieu will not target Peria,” said Gorn.
Vandalieu had appeared in the Demon King’s Continent. There was no evidence that he was not after Peria’s soul.
In fact, it was plausible that Vandalieu’s plan was to draw the attention of Alda’s forces to the Demon King’s Continent, and Peria was his true objective.
“But do you have any ideas on where to get more reinforcements?” asked Sirius. “If we had time, more demigods might join us, but…”
Gorn had spoken to many of the demigods belonging to Alda’s forces. However, not all of them had been able to join him.
Demigods did not have free time to spend playing around; they performed duties such as suppressing the spread of dangerous Devil’s Nests, culling monster numbers in Dungeons that had formed in regions that made them difficult for humans to clear, and protecting the seals on Demon King fragments and evil gods.
Of course, they understood the importance of Gorn’s task as well, but if a catastrophic event occurred in their absence from their regular duties, there would be even more dangers that the world was exposed to.
“Indeed… The Colossi, Elder Dragons, and Beast-Kings of Vida’s faction that were sealed away in the battle a hundred thousand years ago, it would be good if we could convince them to join us. Could we not ask our lord about this?” suggested Gorn.
“Don’t ask when you know it will be difficult. There is no way they will agree to join us, even if Alda-sama himself tried to convince them,” said Sirius.
In the battle between Alda and Vida that had taken place a hundred thousand years ago, many of the Colossi who had remained demigods without becoming monsters had sided with Vida’s faction. This was because the Sun Giant Talos, the most powerful of the surviving Colossi, had sided with Vida.
Thus, Gorn and the other Colossi who had sided with Alda’s forces were in the minority. The same could be said for the Elder Dragons; the Elder Dragons revered the Mountain Queen Elder Dragon God Tiamat, and most of them and their children had joined Vida’s faction.
In terms of numbers, the number of demigods who had joined Alda’s forces like Gorn was not small. However, they were a small portion of the whole.
Still, Alda’s forces won the battle. In other words, many demigods on Vida’s side had been sealed away, and many had died as well.
“They killed their own brethren; I cannot imagine that they will change so easily. I suppose it is possible to forcibly control them, but… Vandalieu’s mother is the incarnation of Vida. It is possible that they will regain their senses during battle and become enemies,” said Sirius.
Gorn was convinced by this argument. Even if they had once been enemies, he wasn’t happy with the idea of forcibly controlling members of his own race.
However, the fact was that it was difficult to gather more fighting forces on short notice using ordinary means.
As the gods were nurturing potential heroes, recruiting some humans might have been an option, but… the location and environment of the Demon King’s Continent made that impossible.
“To think that Nineroad’s plan would have a downside like this,” Gorn muttered.
After defeating the Demon King Guduranis, the army led by Bellwood and the other champions had thoroughly purified – or perhaps more accurately, destroyed – the Demon King’s Continent.
The Demon King’s Palace, the evil temples, the forests of fungi, the black deserts. The champions’ army had thoroughly destroyed such structures and lands, turning them into barren wastelands, in order to prevent monsters and the remnants of the Demon King’s army from using them. Gorn, Sirius, and Gufadgarn – who was now on Vandalieu’s side – had taken part in this task.
As a result, the Demon King’s Continent had been saved from contamination by miasma a hundred thousand years ago… though it had become a barren continent without a single tree or blade of grass.
However, it had been clear that Devil’s Nests would appear on the Demon King’s Continent once more – because the Demon King’s seal on Botin still remained. The faint traces of the Demon King’s Mana leaking from the seal would become miasma and contaminate the continent.
If left alone, the Demon King’s Continent would return to the way it was – no, it would become even more of a continent of Devil’s Nests than before.
But after that, the gods of the world, including Bellwood who had become a heroic god, had devoted themselves to the restoration of the world, and they did not have the ability to spend efforts on the maintenance of the Demon King’s Continent, where no person or living thing existed. After being exhausted even further by the battle against Vida, they had been unable to continue carrying out the task of remaining on the Demon King’s Continent to prevent the miasma from contaminating it.
Even so, they had committed various efforts to release Botin from her seal, regularly culled monsters on the continent, and swept away the Devil’s Nests, but all of these efforts had gone to waste. The seal on Botin could not be broken, and the Devil’s Nests had continued to spread.
After around fifty thousand years had passed, nature had recovered on the Demon King’s Continent – though in the form of the continent becoming one enormous Devil’s Nest, inhabited by countless monsters.
That was when Nineroad had come up with a plan.
“Unlike the Demon Continent where remnants of Vida’s faction like Zantark and remnants of the Demon King’s army are hiding, there are no threats to us on the Demon King’s Continent. Why don’t we take advantage of that and gather the world’s miasma on that continent? If we do that, it will reduce the number of Devil’s Nests forming not only on the Bahn Gaia Continent, but also in the skies and seas,” she had said.
Bellwood had already fallen into his slumber, and Farmaun had escaped from Alda’s faction, so none had opposed her idea.
And so, much of the world’s miasma had been gathered in the Demon King Continent, and the expansion of Devil’s Nests in many lands had been slowed.
As a result, the Demon King’s Continent became a difficult continent to even step foot on unless one was a demigod.
“There is nothing we can do about that decision now. By concentrating the world’s miasma on this continent, the other lands have been kept in an ordinary state, and the humans have flourished,” said Sirius.
“That is true, but… Hmm? Nineroad’s plan… Nineroad, huh,” said Gorn, seeming to have thought of something. “They’ll be an addition to our fighting strength, I suppose. And unlike Repobilis and Radatel, their loss will be of no consequence to us.”
Sirius asked Gorn what he intended to do, and was surprised by the answer. It was not the kind of method that would be thought of by a demigod who had pride in themselves.
However, Sirius was convinced, knowing that this plan would indeed add to their fighting forces, and returned to his Divine Realm to report to Alda and Nineroad.
Soon after Sirius left, Brateo, the Great Ocean Dragon God Madroza, and the demigods who had not been part of the battle against Vandalieu returned.
“We have returned, brothers!” said Brateo.
“You fought well. Now then, drink this and heal your wounds as much as you can,” said Madroza.
They fed the injured medicines made from their own blood, repaired their damaged weapons, and began making a replacement war horn for Sirius.
“My little brother, I shall do something about your wounds and your armor,” said the Iron Colossus Nabanga, giving medicine to the Bronze Colossus Lubug and beginning to repair his armor.
“U-ugh, brother…” groaned Lubug.
There was a plan to replenish their fighting forces, and it seemed that they would be able to make preparations before Vandalieu appeared again. Gorn felt relieved, but in the next moment –
“So, when are you planning to pursue Vandalieu? Don’t tell me you’re planning to let him escape?” said Brateo.
“W-what are you saying?! Pursue, you say? I already told you, we can’t take that risk!” said Gorn.
When Cuatro escaped into the sea, Gorn had stopped Brateo from recklessly giving chase by pinning his arms back from behind. Brateo’s roaring lightning attacks would diffuse uselessly underwater, and Gorn had decided that there was a high chance that he would be killed by Vandalieu and his companions.
Brateo had calmed down a while after that and helped Madroza and the others treat the wounded, so Gorn had assumed that Brateo understood the situation, but… it seemed that this was not the case.
“What are you talking about?! If we do nothing but defend, we will never defeat them!” said Brateo.
“That is correct. We managed to repel them this time, but next time, they are likely to bring appropriate forces. We must make our own move first,” said Madroza.
Not only was Brateo not understanding the situation, but Madroza was agreeing with him. Brateo had lost his wife in the battle against the Demon King Guduranis over a hundred thousand years ago, and Madroza too had lost her husband. Thus, Madroza had a fierce hatred for the Demon King like Brateo.
“Are you telling me to let them escape after they killed my son?!” Brateo shouted angrily.
“As foolish as he was, Zvold was my son. Are you telling me to simply withstand my hatred?!” demanded Madroza.
It seemed that they both had impulsive personalities.
However, most demigods were impulsive to begin with. Unfortunately for Gorn, many in the group voiced their agreement with Brateo and Madroza’s words.
However, Gorn could not accept their demands.
“Do not say such foolish things!” he said, cursing the fact that Sirius was not here to help him stop this nonsense. “Even if we were to chase after them now, they can escape anywhere with Gufadgarn’s teleportation; it is a fool’s errand! And if they wait in ambush, every single one of us will be destroyed. Do not forget that we were only able to repel them this time because we had strength in numbers!”
Any of the demigods would have been defeated by Vandalieu and his companions in battle if they’d had to face him alone or in pairs. That was true not only for Gorn, but for Brateo and Madroza as well.
They might have been able to impose a difficult battle on Vandalieu and his companions, forcing them to exhaust their strength and maybe even wounding them, before they were defeated. But they would still be defeated in the end.
“But when we attacked with ten of us, we felt it! We felt that we were able to fight them, and that we could win!” said Brateo.
“If we gave chase and fought him with all of us who can still move – about twenty of us – we should be able to win,” said Madroza.
Gorn felt dizzy just from hearing these words. He wanted to point out that certain individuals had ruined the strategy that had made victory feel possible, but refrained from doing so, as this would only anger the two further.
“That is true, but Vandalieu and his allies were not forced to their limits. And it is possible that they have already teleported somewhere with Gufadgarn’s abilities,” he said.
Brateo understood that giving chase was likely futile. But even so, he could not accept Gorn’s words.
“Then how about telling Alda to take advantage of this! Tell him, when the Dhampir appears here or in the land where Peria slumbers, or when he shows himself in the human city called Alcrem, we should attack his stronghold… the region inside the Boundary Mountain Range!” Brateo said.
“Indeed,” Madroza agreed. “Gods cannot pass through the barrier, but us demigods are able to pass through it physically. In fact, we could even pick up the potential heroes being nurtured by the gods and take them with us. With this –”
“… Are you being serious?” said Gorn, sighing at Brateo and Madroza’s unrealistic plan.
This plan, if it could be executed and victory could be achieved, was indeed an effective one. However, it was realistically far too difficult.
First of all, Sirius and the other gods had already been fooled by Vandalieu once. They had been unable to discern that the Vandalieu in Alcrem was a fake, and as a result, Gorn and the others had been late to group up.
Unless they descended upon the world themselves, even gods could only see what was happening on the world’s surface through the eyes of their believers. Thus, they could only see what their believers saw… what the mortals saw.
Even if Vandalieu were to show himself again, the gods would not be able to tell whether it was the real Vandalieu or not. It was possible that a Vandalieu seen in the city was a fake while the real one was actually inside the Boundary Mountain Range.
Then, there was the fact that the demigods would have to physically cross the Boundary Mountain Range in order to attack the region within it. The demigods, with their physical bodies, could not attack without swimming through the seas, running across the lands, or flying through the sky in order to cross the mountain range.
Colossi were around a hundred meters tall, and the Elder Dragons and Beast-Kings were similarly-sized. If they physically crossed the Boundary Mountain Range in such a fashion, Vandalieu and the gods of Vida’s faction would notice them before they could get close to their enemies.
Once they did, Vandalieu would likely lead his forces to attack them.
It was still possible to attack the stronghold of Vida’s faction by teleporting using space-attribute magic. If a large number of demigods allied with Alda were to appear and attack without warning, Vida’s faction would be able to do little to stop them.
But there were about twenty Pure-breed Vampires inside the Boundary Mountain Range. It could be assumed that many of them were responsible for maintaining the barrier around the mountain range, but if enemy demigods were to attack the region inside, they would abandon that task to join the battle.
The other gods of Vida’s faction were certain to descend upon the world to join the battle rather than wait for death, and there was no doubt that the evil gods of the faction would take part as well.
Next, there was the fact that the resulting battle would be large-scale and fierce, like the ones that had taken place a hundred thousand years ago. Even if Alda’s forces were victorious as they had been in the past, if too many gods were lost in the process, the world would perish in the end.
That was the reason Alda had simply kept an eye on the Boundary Mountain Range without attacking the region inside it for the past hundred thousand years.
Finally, Vida had been resurrected by Vandalieu, and Ricklent and Zuruwarn had become enemies as well. Looking at Alda’s side, Bellwood was slumbering, and Farmaun had abandoned Alda’s faction.
The losses suffered by Alda’s faction would be even greater than any previous estimates.
Brateo made a noise of dissatisfaction. “But Vandalieu hears the voices of the dead. I don’t want to believe that Radatel, Zvold, or Repobilis would betray us, but it is possible that they will be deceived into doing so.”
“Is it not dangerous to simply wait for Vandalieu to attack us again after gaining all of the information he needs about us?” said Madroza.
Gorn admitted that this was true. But he already had a plan to replenish their lost forces with a method that Radatel and the others didn’t know of.
However, this replenishment could not be done immediately.
“Half a month… No, ten days will be enough. Give me time. I will gather the Giants and Dragons of this continent who have become monsters,” Gorn said, praying to his deceased father Zerno that Vandalieu would not appear again before then.
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NOVEL DISCUSSION
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Korath
So, if you are dumb and live for 100k years, you are still dumb.
EjPuzatiy
-You want us let the killer of our kids go?!
Damn
Did they ever heard of a saying “Come with a sword – die by a sword”?
ziethe
“Gather the Giants and Dragons of this continent who have become monsters”…. honestly with all the titles MC has, it sounds like a preeeeeetty bad idea xD
Winter
‘It was not the kind of method that would be thought of by a demigod who had pride in themselves.’
Don’t worry, you guys already showed plenty that your pride is worthless :’)
It’s also funny that they criticize the other demigods, who sided with Vida, that they “killed their own brethren”, even though Alda attacked first with the goal to genocide their descendants.
These hypocrites are really the most stellar example of the phrase “history is written by the victor”, no matter how messed up your actions were.
It’s like how all war crimes Germany committed in WW2 are highlighted even in German history classes these days, but all the fucked up shit that the Allies and Russian did in Germany is swept under the rug (not saying that Germany was justice or anything, but that doesn’t mean that innocent civilians deserve to be killed and raped after the war was already lost. It’s just the first example that came to mind).
Hobbes
Yes, but realistically abuse, theft, rape, pillaging, mismanagement by the victor, economic collapse, wanton destruction, etc., etc… they always happen before, during, & after large scale conflicts in human history. To great or lesser degrees, yes, but they have always happened (even if they’re covered up afterwards).
We are all evil little monkeys. That is one thing that WE ALL HAVE IN COMMON.
Sailon
(Still, Alda’s forces won the battle. In other words, many demigods on Vida’s side had been sealed away, and many had died as well.
“They killed their own brethren; I cannot imagine that they will change so easily. I suppose it is possible to forcibly control them, but… Vandalieu’s mother is the incarnation of Vida. It is possible that they will regain their senses during battle and become enemies,” said Sirius.)
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The hipocrisy of the aldiot faction is really amazing. Tgey are the one to attack first and they just say mani of demi gods of vida faction sre killed, meaning aldiot faction demi gods also killed theyr own brethren. But they simpke ignore all that and put only vida faction demi gods as being the killers and the alda faction the victims.
Malkav0
That’s about what to expect from the faction composed of Aldiot, Idiotcorte and Idiot-heinz
Alke
Oh, I didn’t comment the crazy experimental thing! Well, it’s a dark really dark shade of gray, it’s the first time that it bothers me because it reminded me of the experiments that Vandalieu had to live in origin, the torture and all. They are awful and gruesome pple, that I get it, they deserved a real punishment but torture and r*pe are the worst things ever, though he must have performed the same maybe. For me it could be possibly acceptable if he was a monstrous serial killer or genocidal integrist or a manipulative killer or sàdistic torturer or ràpist but he wasn’t all of this if I remember the information no? 🤔
Sailon
In this chapter just explain this guy was a illegal slave trader that justify himself saying the people captyred would be killed by bandits. But also was mention begire that the future of illegal slaves sre very bad, like beying made plaything for nobles, or to unscrupulous magicias to be used as lab rats, the better ones among illegal slaves are the ones send to mines. So yeah he is only suffering the same things the people he sold suffered, and using his logic at least he still alive. Altought agreed the morality of this action is dark grey, but Van morality always like that
Alke
They want Thalos and Tiamat to join them?! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Yeah, dream on it 😒😒😒keep dreaming 😒😒”Demigods did not have free time to spend playing around” really? 🤔Because you seem to have pretty much time on your hands to try to kill pple who are coming to save your goddess 😒😒wait a sec’, maybe for them it would be a loss to save her if she’s not going to lick Alda’s boots and be his dog like they are anyway 🤔😒😒Unlike the Demon Continent where remnants of Vida’s faction like Zantark and remnants of the Demon King’s army are hiding, there are no threats to us on the Demon King’s Continent. Why don’t we take advantage of that and gather the world’s miasma on that continent? If we do that, it will reduce the number of Devil’s Nests forming not only on the Bahn Gaia Continent, but also in the skies and seas,” she had said. 😒😒😒😒Say, muscle heads, it wasn’t the kind of solution that Zakkart proposed to begin with? 🤔🤔🤔😒😒With lesser much lesser deaths (well it’s not difficult to find a solution with less dead pple, you drove the world near to extinction 😑). Say, it’s not polluting a part of the planet to save the rest of the world?! And without dead heroes, sealed Gods, genocides from Alda, extreme measures to make up for your incompetence by Vida🤔🤔No? OK, you’re always right, since you won the war against Vida and wrote the story 😒😒
Zenden1st
Hmm raising undead titans and dragons?
Damoniil
Well I caught up now and decided to create an account. Can’t wait to enter the section the next time 57 varieties or Rodiot™ appear.
Man what a ride, considering that all I wanted was to know who this Eleanora chiq is that appeared in the newest manga chapter at that time.
I also accept bets on what Van’s next job will be; my chip is on Creator (cuz Botwin[pls be spelled right] is the goddes of crafting)
EZ_CRIMSON
Creator is too generic…. need some sort of adjective to be a job
Damoniil
Wdym? He has ‘Creator’ as a possible job since a while ago. Or do you want to say he wont pick it cuz its too generic sounding? ^^”
EZ_CRIMSON
well i meant both tbh…. and for most examples of Van’s jobs its stuff like
E.g. Venom Fist or Zombie Maker.
I may have already forgotten about a simple sounding job like Creator (although it does sound familiar now that you mention it)…. I really didnt think such a simply named job was available for him when replying lol.
Either way, Ive personally found it really hard to guess what he will go with most of the time. Ive only been right on a few occasions when he was picking something for an upcoming battle…. his own picks have gone against his own “logic” a lot. Like jumping into the most ominous sounding jobs after saying he wouldnt lol.
And i personally never wouldve gone for whip tongue calamity or whatever so i never wouldve guessed it either.
As far as a guess goes… im gonna shoot randomly and say he goes for another guidance type.
Damoniil
Ah yes. The Dark Demon Double Whopper with extra cheese creation path xD
But yee also possible
Lord Rin
Well he’s taken so many varied types of creation jobs and even a Creation Guider job so it makes sense that he’d get a job title just ‘Creator’. Most other people with production type jobs end up specializing to at least some extent so they end up with creation jobs with adjectives in front available to them but Van can create things that are so disparate and unrelated from each other like dungeons, undead, transformation equipment and food that a single adjective wouldn’t be enough to do justice to any creation job that might be available to Van at this point. So the gods of the status and job system just slapped a ‘Creator’ job onto his list of available jobs and called it a day. They’re too busy coming up with princess-based jobs and skills to tease Zadiris.
Flesh Sculptor
TruePath: None of his harem girls are virgins! It is disgusting! They are whores! How dare author not cater to my fetish!? Everyone who thinks otherwise is a stupid beta cuck!
Doc:Human experimentation is abhorrent! Regardless of who the test subjects are, what societal norms in the country and its people say! Sex with undead is necrophilia! Even if 50% of the citys population are sentient undead and have been forming families with the living for a while now! How dare characters in the novel have different outlook than me!? Everyone who disagrees is a morally decrepit degenerate!
Ok… Verdict! Henceforth i will ignore this person’s existence and avoid contact as much as possible least i catch whatever is is they are having. Yes i may be a morally decrepit degenerate with a wheel of fortune for a moral compass and more fetishes then i care to count BUT. At least i am a healthy one.
unwanted child
man i feel like i’ve only skimmed through the comments but this doc person has just become a less horny truepath hasn’t he?
Eli-san
we can assume, that if the experiments with life gold work, right the children of the undead can live normal lives and they were fine even without Van’s presence.
I see that Belwod is some kind of idiot manipulator with a distorted sense of values that only he you’re right about everything
Irazori
Yeah, the experiments are still a major gray area. It’s not like Van is using even the aldiot worshipers as test subjects to spite the aldiots. Plus bandits/slave traders pretty much lost their rights to be considered people, especially for all the sexual-assaulty stuff willingly did.
#
aldiots still being aldiots by just moronically blaming the WRONG PERSON!!!!! If they actually tried to invade Van’s domain, then it would essentially be asking for retaliation by direct assaults on all the aldiot temples.
Irazori
Side note:
HA!!!!!!!
#
AS IF YOU ALDIOTS WOULD CONVINCE ANY OF THE SEALED VIDA FORCES TO JOIN YOUR INCOMPETENT SIDE!!!!!
#
YOU COULDN”T DO THAT BEFORE WITHOUT ZAKKART ACTUALLY DOING THE WORK FOR YOU, SO WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT YOU CAN DO IT NOW?
Doc
Well, hated every part of those first few paragraphs. Not only does it go against like the strongest aspect of Van’s character. His hatred at having his free will taken from him in Origin. Even going as far as doing the numbered subject thing. But all of that character assassination done for what is essentially a prolonged necrophilia joke. Wonderful.
Anyway, pretending that section doesn’t exist and never did. I would find it fascinating if those dumb demigods actually tried attacking Van’s Empire. They got their asses handed to them by more than just Van. Do they think Van’s companions incapable of defending themselves without Van being there? Bone stadium Knochen alone would probably down a few dozen.
ObserverBias
… You’ve forgotten what series you’re reading, haven’t you? The part where criminals taken in are /regularly/ submitted to human experimentation and what amounts to torture, and those that aren’t “yet” of actual use to him are given the same treatment as spirits? Van doesn’t care to treat people as such /undeservedly/, but that in itself is also based on people not directly causing problems for him.
Not a joke at all. These experiments have been in progress for quite some time now, and were outright mentioned to start live testing with Talosheim’s captured criminals several chapters ago. If you forgot that, that’s on you.
Doc
@ObserverBias Tell ya what. You point me to the chapters where human experimentation is “regularly” happening, and I’ll see how it’s worded there. Because your description of it does not match what is being described here.
SpoopyGhostBro
Early on he kidnaps a bunch of nobles of the Amid Empire from a fort in the Sauron region who were in charge of the occupation forces. He grafted demon king fragments into them while they were still alive, and they became mutants without any will of their own. Van even later says this is normal.
The slave trader knowingly sold slaves illegally, he is responsible for his own actions that led to the suffering of those he sold. Van cares about the victims, as that is who he identifies with.
Van believes strongly in retributive justice. If someone wrongs him, he will wrong them back. This is just him extending that rule to people he sympathizes with.
ObserverBias
@Doc
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152: |Isla ignored him, unsheathed her favorite knife and licked its blade with her purple tongue. “Will we deal with him here?” she asked her master.
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“Yes, I’ve paralyzed him so he won’t die from the shock. We’ll be taking him back as a prisoner… as an experimental subject, but we still need to make a proper declaration of war.”
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Today was the last day that anyone would see the duke’s face ever again, including Vandalieu and Duke Marme himself.|
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v7 Character Summary
|When he was at the army headquarters, he was captured by Vandalieu and abducted after having the skin of his head from the neck up removed by Isla’s knife.
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Currently, the various ‘horrible people’ among the military and civil officials David brought from his own realm are being used for various experiments such as transplants of body parts made of the Demon King’s fragments.|
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155: |Whether Guidance: Dark Demon Path worked on a living person or not depended largely on the person, so it couldn’t be relied upon.
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In fact, Vandalieu saw Duke Marme and the vassals that had been kidnapped with him every few days, but they would not be guided while they were alive.|
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156: |“They still seem to be hesitant to do that,” said Cuoco. “Considering what you did to Duke Marme and the others…”
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Pauvina blinked curiously. “Van, did you do something?” she asked, her curiosity piqued by Cuoco’s suggestive tone. “Other than the human experiments,” she added.
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“I haven’t done anything other than the human experiments,” said Vandalieu.
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“Right? That’s normal, so I don’t know why they won’t come and talk to you. How strange,” said Pauvina.
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“I agree,” said Vandalieu.|
This one features the meat and potatoes of explicitly what is done to some members just after this exchange, but I’ve been compiling this for a few minutes, so it’s probably taking up more than enough space. So, just the one more that I had preloaded, for posterity.
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211: |From a hidden door in the meeting room, the other members of the organization who had undergone surgery to transplant fragments of the Demon King into their bodies… Aberrations, including the ‘Hyena’ Gozoroff, emerged to carry their soon-to-be new brethren into the processing room.
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Erkid would not be punished by the law, but he was likely to continue an existence where he could regret his evil deeds for all eternity.|
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So, yeah, regular skinning of the face is kind of “nothing” next to having your own body overtaken by a rabid DK body part and becoming part of a species that has not seen fit to be mentioned in over 50 chapters, I reckon.
Doc
@ObserverBias As I said in another comment, it’s the how that is the problem, not the what. But thanks for finding the relevant passages. See, you can use proper counter arguments. If we kept it to this instead of the juvenile insults, discussion would be so much more interesting. Despite what you might assume, I’m not unwilling to concede a point if proper evidence is suggested and we can debate like proper adults.
Let’s go through the passages.
152: Vague statement, but yes, clearly from this Van is not against the idea of human experimentation of some undetermined kind.
V7 Character Summary: Some actual specifics of what those experiments were, though I believe he’s referring to offshoot pieces of DK fragments, not live pieces that try to take over the host. Like Van’s DK familiars. He owns all the actual fragments. Everything else is an offshoot piece that has no will. Still obviously not a great existence but also not a description that matches Van’s particular circumstances. These were also people that were actively trying to attack Van. Not an employee of some random criminal, in which his greatest crime was apparently indifference.
155: Not really sure why this passage was included. Was this to point out the regularity Van was torturing the Duke and other officers? It’s very vague.
156: This one kinda goes against the point you’re making, as here Van is suggesting he’s not doing anything special other than the vague term of “human experimentation” again. Which to this point I suppose just means the DK fragment splicing. No specifics into the how, just the what.
211: Honestly, this one and the character summary were probably the only two passages you needed as those two contain the best evidence of what those experiments were, who they were done against, and how they were carried out. As well as the impact they had on those individuals. Considering there are 275 chapters across 12 released volumes and like 6 paragraphs in which only 2 contain specifics go into Van’s methods of dealing with certain criminals, I’d hardly call this overwhelming proof of Van’s personality or behavior. Really the biggest thing it proves is Van usually reserves the worst punishments for people who directly go after him or his friends. This body guard of a slave trader does not fit in with the others. What it sounded like is the author wanted a gap moe comedy bit to start the chapter, bringing up Luciliano who we haven’t heard from in awhile (apart from the little end of chapter blurbs) who is known for doing unscrupulous stuff, and figured, “well Van had done similar enough stuff in the past, who cares how it comes off here”
Tejing
Based on his comments, Doc has always had a pretty significant reading comprehension and retention problem with this story. It was just a bit more obvious this time. Whatever the story looks like in his head, it sure isn’t the same one the rest of us have been reading. I’ve tried compiling quotes to prove how badly he’s misperceived things once or twice; doesn’t seem to have much impact, so I don’t bother anymore.
Doc
@Tejing /eyeroll Speak for everyone do you?
I swear, you’d think this series was Shakespeare with the complete unwillingness to be critical of it. I’ve heaped praise on this story numerous times when it was deserving of that praise. But hey, who needs silly facts to get in the way of attempts to box others in corners only you think exist.
EZ_CRIMSON
@doc he does basically speak for everyone… you have been fully refuted dude. How you could possibly read this far into the novel and still somehow project your own personal morals onto Van’s character is amazing. Even the term necrophiliac would put you on Vans bad side….. Whats even funnier is your apparently so stuck on your current moral outrage that you fail to see what is likely to come. For instance, what do you suppose the point of the current set of experiments is? For a creepy scientist to satisfy his curiosity or maybe his deviant sexual desires? That could indeed be a factor lol…. but no, the whole point is so Van can literally marry and later have the option of impregnating the various dead bodies he considers his fiancé’s.
Again I ask….. what have you been reading? If something like this bothers you at this point…. you have an extreme confirmation bias that allows you to reinterpret things to better suit your own beliefs. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trying to insult you or call you stupid or anything…. i just cant imagine the mental gymnastics it would require to misinterpret the story to such a degree makes for an enjoyable reading experience.
If you are simply unable to detach your self from our reality enough to accept mass murder for personal convenience, slavery, rape, cannibalism, brainwashing, actual cults, bestiality, desecration of the dead and pretty much any other concept that would be UNTHINKABLE in reality…. you are simply reading the wrong story.
Umetsu
“His hatred at having his free will taken from him in Origin.”, – was never major point of his character. Right version would be – his hate of mistreatment of him and overs, based on something bullcrap, like “oh, I don’t have any blessings/powers for you, so i send you life to hell” ©Rodcort He using criminals/enemies against they free wiil, like from the very beginning – remember, Talosheim golems have souls of them, forced to until they forget even themselve and more?
Chiu ChunLing
I’m going to go ahead and throw in something in defense of Doc’s position here.
Van is pretty much reaching the point where the experiments on Undead reproduction are going to become irrelevant because he’s going to be able to basically bring anyone he likes that well back to life and they simply won’t be Undead anymore.
It’s true that the experiments on restoring the life processes of Undead include and are heavily influenced by the Undead reproduction experiments, in fact they’ve been the cutting edge in bringing Undead closer to being fully alive for most of the time they’ve been underway. But they’re no longer the cutting edge even now…except maybe the field of making it possible for Ghosts to have children.
That’s not to say continuing the experiments is useless, and in fact the progress in simply returning the Undead to a living state means that the ethical problems with such experiments are considerably reduced. It’s pretty inevitable that, within a few years, it will be readily possible for this happy harem to be not just ‘lifelike Undead’ but living women who happen to have been Undead in the past. The main question is whether it will be easy for them to have the same or greater strength as living women as they had as Undead.
For now, that being in question is plenty of reason for Van to wish to continue experiments on Undead reproduction as well as other methods of making Undead more life-like rather than directly returning them to life by any of the several processes which currently can involve a significant loss of strength. Though Van does fundamentally regard life as preferable to undeath, it’s only a preference, not a decisive factor like the strength to survive and prosper.
Conversely, if he finds a feasible way to bring his Undead companions back to life without drastically reducing their strength in the process, Van will clearly end up choosing to do so. And it’s basically a certainty that he’ll find such a method sooner or later.
This may not seem to amount to anything like a defense of Doc’s position, but to be clear, I only said it was ‘something in defense’, not a complete defense on it’s own. And I can’t find the rest of such a defense in the story so far. Overall, what I find is that these experiments have been and still are crucial in getting past the need for them.
But we shouldn’t forget that for Van, Undeath has always just been a means of improving quality of life for everyone he cares about.
Lord Rin
Well sure these are cruel experiments and would be considered unethical just like the ones the Death Attribute researchers back on Origin performed on Van and the Eighth Guidance but at least Van admits to the hypocrisy of doing it when they had been done to him before. Plus the experiments have an actual good goal unlike the ones done on Van and the Eighth Guidance which only were done out of scientific curiosity without a real goal.
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Anyways it was funny how Luciliano got angry not because of being insulted but because he was classified wrongly in the insult: he’s not an idiot, he’s a mad scientist.
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Sucks for Gorn to be stuck with comrades like Brateo and Madroza. They are the epitome of a Leeroy Jenkins. Gorn can barely keep them in line and I’m willing to bet that they’ll screw up whatever plan Gorn is going to make. That’s why I hope Van keeps Brateo and Madroza alive so they can continue messing up Gorn’s plans.
Jonathan Hurd
I would say a very important distinction between Van and the Origin scientists is who the victims of their experiments are. Van and the Eighth Guidance were orphans/children sold off to be used and abused. They were also tortured sometimes just because the scientists felt like it. Van is experimenting on people who have done horrendous things themselves. Basically he is subjecting people similar to the scientists who experimented on him to a fate similar to what they themselves put others through.
Now if you ask me is doing human experiments a good thing? No. Do the people Van experiments on deserve it? Yup.
Doc
@Johnathan Hurd
Nope, don’t buy that argument for a second. Van’s number 1 priority was being able to act under his own will. Him depriving anybody of their free will, regardless of that person’s actions (and from the description of this guy’s crimes, he really didn’t deserve torture), goes against his core personality.
Hated that first part of the side chapter. It went so against Van’s character that it shocked me how bad that was. I mean for f’s sake, he’s even doing the numbered subject thing. Also a bit plot holey as the black goblins said they killed the crime organization people after doing the face tearing. Now they’re being used for human experimentation? And all for what, a necrophilia joke?
If I could unsee those paragraphs I’d prefer that.
Hobbes
You’ve misunderstood Van’s character and motivations (or maybe just skewed them a bit to match your values)… Van is insane. He has a good heart, but that doesn’t dissuade him from acting on his beliefs/values/justice regardless of the hypocritical nature such actions occasionally present. (Like forgiving rather heinous criminals/ex-enemies such as Ternecia’s Vampire Hounds, but being unable to excuse others for far less)
Plus, its not really about an the loss of an individual’s agency that Van hates, it’s more along the lines of shallow/whimsical malice, stupidity, and oppression that Van instinctively lashes out at when it concerns those he values even slightly. Especially when such malevolence is without the slightest justification/reason (like his favorite one: retribution).
If Van was really bothered by one’s loss of agency, then he would have significant reservations about his own Death Attribute Charm, Guidance, and other minor or major forms of brainwashing. He has more than enough self awareness to realize the effect he has on people isn’t the most organic.
Doc
@Hobbes There’s numerous problems with your counter arguments here.
First off, Ternicia’s hounds are for the most part all already dead and are ghosts. It’s not like there’s a body to torture and punish. The one hound that isn’t dead watched over a hideout for millennia and therefore has done nothing wrong.
Van’s enemies and external people may call Van insane but seeing as nothing Van has done has been without reasoned thought, that’s clearly not true. Insanity is the inability to make informed decisions. Being an oddball is not the same as being insane.
Van’s death charm ability was explained in detail when he was first staying in the Ghoul village. It is not brainwashing. Intelligent undead or ghouls are not compelled to follow his orders. The charm effect only makes him appear more likable to them. Meaning they’re more likely to listen to what he has to say, not necessarily agree with what he’s saying. Spirits and undead with little self-awareness to start with are more likely to be controlled but as they already have a weakened sense of self, it’s not a loss of agency.
The guider jobs he has also aren’t brainwashing. They buff people in his sphere of influence. I don’t know why Bellwood’s guider job was impacting Alda’s faction’s behavior as much as it was seeing as none of Van’s guider jobs have made people act against their own self interests. Closest you can get to his guider jobs “brainwashing” people is when already suicidal people were seeing Van in their dreams and starting to worship him. Van didn’t even realize this was happening though, so it wasn’t willful.
ObserverBias
And Number 27 is acting under his own will, as a criminal slave. Heck, even in this scene the offer is a choice, and he misunderstands what, exactly, the offer is.
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Goldy was the one killing people that he (they?) facetore. The black goblins had always been kidnapping them, going as far back as the first noble they gave that treatment to (who even got a bit of limelight in being /shown/ to be used as human experiments for whether Demon King pieces could be removed from them, how certain drugs interacted with them, etc. before they expired).
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That this one is Number 27 (presumably of their current lot) means that turnover rates have been reasonably high, at least to the point that they don’t seem to be at a loss of subjects to make use of, nor nearly crowding prison facilities.
Doc
@ObserverBias He’s acting under his own will *now*. For this specific choice. When he was having his face repeatedly torn off for practice or having drugs injected into his system he had no choice.
Also, I’ll have to go back a few chapters to find it but I could have sworn the black goblins said they were killing all members on the list Van provided them for people that were in Alcrem’s criminal organization. They were even prideful of how they went about those killings and were angry over how sloppy the fake face tearing demon was.
Yes, I was aware they had caught bandits and other criminals before, but at no point in those earlier descriptions was it described that the treatment of those criminals was equivalent to what Van went through in Origin.
ObserverBias
@Doc
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He was already acting under his own will; the difference is that his choices were previously ‘death’ or ‘service,’ and he chose service. Up until just before this experiment he had yet to want for death “instead.”
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He had the choice to die, but not the will to carry it out. As shown some time back during the encounter with Hajime, even with the awareness of a method to immediately commit suicide, humans hesitate to do so due to self-preservation instinct. Of course, that was a life-or-death scenario with no middleground and requiring immediate action, but surely you aren’t claiming humans are /incapable/ of damaging themselves to such extents willingly.
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Already found it for you; 255. They’re stated to be disposing of them. They /aren’t/ claiming to kill them. As far as human society is concerned (and for that matter, can be blamed for assuming), if someone’s /face/ is found separate from their body, and the person themselves is not to be found, they’re dead. Mind, some of those being targeted caught onto what seemed to be happening and schemed to remove themselves from the picture by having their own faces removed and disappearing into the night, but it’s not gone into how many of them successfully got away with that.
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And this isn’t that last part either. For them, death is no stopgap, as they’ll be charmed by Van immediately and be put back to work. At the technical level, they aren’t being “mistreated” as living experimental subjects, but “punished” as criminals who are also being used as experimental subjects. There /is/ a difference. Van’s second life (in the scripts own words) started with him being filled with explosives before he could do anything, having already been sold as a child. These people (criminals) who have been caught are /hardly/ children who had their life decisions made for them from the beginning. They caused suffering to others, for varying reasons that aren’t the benefit of others. They aren’t going to be abducted and then left in solitary confinement, no, if they’re going to be in custody there will be use wrung out of them.
ObserverBias
@Doc
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He was already acting under his own will; the difference is that his choices were previously ‘death’ or ‘service,’ and he chose service. Up until just before this experiment he had yet to want for death “instead.”
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Number 27 had the choice to die, but not the will to carry it out. As shown some time back during the encounter with Hajime, even with the awareness of a method to immediately commit suicide, humans hesitate to do so due to self-preservation instinct. Of course, that was a life-or-death scenario with no middleground and requiring immediate action, but surely you aren’t claiming humans are /incapable/ of damaging themselves to such extents willingly.
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Already found it for you; 255. They’re stated to be disposing of them. They /aren’t/ claiming to kill them. As far as human society is concerned (and for that matter, can be blamed for assuming), if someone’s /face/ is found separate from their body, and the person themselves is not to be found, they’re dead. Mind, some of those being targeted caught onto what seemed to be happening and schemed to remove themselves from the picture by having their own faces removed and disappearing into the night, but it’s not gone into how many of them successfully got away with that.
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||“We sneak in, take off the skin of their faces like Isla taught us, and then all there’s left to do is take them with us. We gather them up and send them to Talosheim. We didn’t have any trouble,” one of them replied.||
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And this isn’t that last part either. For them, death is no stopgap, as they’ll be charmed by Van immediately and be put back to work. At the technical level, they aren’t being “mistreated” as living experimental subjects, but “punished” as criminals who are also being used as experimental subjects. There /is/ a difference. Van’s second life (in the scripts own words) started with him being filled with explosives before he could do anything, having already been sold as a child. These people (criminals) who have been caught are /hardly/ children who had their life decisions made for them from the beginning. They caused suffering to others, for varying reasons that aren’t the benefit of others. They aren’t going to be abducted and then left in solitary confinement, no, if they’re going to be in custody there will be use wrung out of them.
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It just so happens this one is in a ‘service’ way.
Doc
@ObserverBias “hey’re stated to be disposing of them. They /aren’t/ claiming to kill them.”
You have a very optimistic interpretation of the words “disposing of them”. That’s the equivalent of arguing “unless we see the death on camera, they ain’t dead” to any movie/TV show character that is obviously dead. Generally when I “dispose” of something, I don’t tuck it away for later.
And you have no idea if this dude had the choice to die or not, nor is that where the line is drawn in self-agency. Even if it was, do you think that alone makes his situation different enough from Van’s? That seems to be the hill you’re dying on here.
bk3k
I wonder where you ever got such an impression of Van. You seem completely alone on this, and for good reason. Did you read the same story we did? Is your memory fuzzy and you are filling in the gaps? Are you mixing up this and another story’s MC?
Could it be that… you are mistaken somehow? No! You can’t be wrong! Everyone else is wrong! And the author too, is wrong! Only you are correct! Infallible! /s
Chiu ChunLing
I can offer nothing in defense of Doc here, this part of the conversation has degenerated into the simple and obvious trolling that it was always intended to be, Doc isn’t even trying to pretend to be reasonable or a genuine fan and isn’t saying anything that deserves even a moment of serious consideration.
WholesomeAF
I think you got it wrong if you think that Van is generally a good person. He’s not, he’s just a guy acting on his own justice to protect what is important to him. He couldn’t care less what their captured criminals were doing. I am actually surprised they even had the chance to normal life. And this torture /experiment had been going on since long before this chapter, ever since they capture their first bandit and enemies, it has been said that lucillano and the black goblins have been doing this. But you only notice now just coz the author decides to add a bit of a back story of a criminal who could have a normal person if it wasn’t for his career choices? Isn’t that kinda short thinking on your part?
WholesomeAF
Just came here to check how’s the argument is going and lol this is getting more interesting! Doc is still unrelenting of his stance anyway, this is helpful in a way. Thanks to Observer bias for doing the research and giving his time just for this guy. It actually helps me remember some faraway chapters, thanks man
Nobody2
Once again we see Bellwood’s hypocrisy and how he just said whatever excuse suited his needs. He claimed they couldn’t use nukes because the volunteers in the army needed to get their continent back but not only did that idea kill all of them but once they had the continent back they just decided it was to far gone and reduced it to a wasteland anyway. He didn’t actually care about the peoples land he just didn’t want to use earth’s technology or listen to zakart
Doc
@Nobody2 What? I don’t recall that being the reason Bellwood refused to use nukes. As a hard-core environmentalist and anti-interventionalist he was against the modern war weapons on principle. Not because he didn’t think the continent was salvageable after the war. Secondly, it was Nineroad’s plan that made the continent uninhabitable, not Bellwood. The population of the continent had already vanished by the time they were clearing it of any Demon King stuff.
Eddy
Actually I think that if it is mentioned that the first reason is environmental damage, the second the risk of the reaction of mana to radiation (Vida agrees with this, even zakkartt himself) and the third was because bellwood was at command of a volunteer army, which a good part were the survivors of that continent
whether voluntarily or involuntarily, between bellwood and nineboard they shit on the principles that caused the separation of the heroes, but, in desperate times desperate measures, ideals are usually the first thing that one burns when being against the fire of hell than in In this case, it was almost literal. and the positive side is that as they mention here, it is the reason why the world is not a completely fallout wasteland, and they did not leave it unsupervised as is usually the case with, no, in general, with the gods of this story regardless of faction.
Utsuho
At the time of the argument between Bellwood and Zakkart, the people from the continent were still alive. So the point of Bellwood still applied.
When Bellwood finally defeated Guduranis, there was only 3000 people alive on Lambda, and not a single one of them were from the ‘demon continent’. So his own argument were now of no value, not that Zakkart was even here to argue anyway.
Nobody2
You literally reiterated my points. My point was Bellwood is a hypocrite and the argument he actually made to zakkart was just excuses to cover his real feelings
Doc
@Nobody2 Not sure who you’re suggesting is repeating your points, but whether it’s me or Utsuho, we’re not. It’s not “hypocritical” to not want to use nukes because of their ecological / technological impact on the world but still be fine with wiping away what was an uninhabited landmass at that point. The point being his refusal to use nukes was not related to his unwillingness to sacrifice lives.
Mind you there were clearly many things Bellwood was wrong about, and his influence obviously had a negative affect on Alda and his faction, but what you’re arguing isn’t one of these cases. The Demon King was defeated, everybody on that continent was long dead, Bellwood and the other surviving champions all agreed to wipe away the Demon King’s structures.
Tejing
Hmm, it’s interesting that Van is leaving open the possibility of a degree of salvation even for the ones that have been judged acceptable test subjects. It’s the sort of thing that would normally not be an option, since this kind of stuff is normally done in secret, and the secret has to be kept, but in the Demon Empire of Vidal, it’s public knowledge.
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I think it’s hilarious that it still hasn’t even occurred to them that Van might have positive intentions toward Botin and Peria. I mean, it’s good, cause if they thought of that possibility they might imprison or kill Botin and/or Peria, just to prevent them from joining Van. Better it come as a total shock.
bookworm12
Based on what they said this chapter, I think Van is the only one who could lift the former Demon King’s seal on Botin. I agree about their thoughts on Van’s intentions. They talked about how there’s no evidence that Van is NOT going after Peria, but completely skated over the fact that there is no evidence that Van is actually planning on devouring either of them. They also keep ignoring the fact that Van has never once attacked someone unprovoked.
I wonder what their secret plan will turn out to be. I had to laugh at that plan to unseal demigods from Vida’s faction and somehow brainwash them into fighting Vida and her champion.
Jonathan Hurd
What really annoys me about Alda’s flunkies talking about the sealed Titan’s and such is when they say “How can we trust someone who killed their own brethren”. Part of me is just screaming ‘YOU ATTACKED FIRST! They were defending themselves against you! You guys were the ones who decided to kill your kin without talking it out!’
Irazori
That’s essentially typical aldiot behavior. Always acting on baseless/self-righteous actions on unilateral made decisions
ObserverBias
The evidence is entirely that he’s been collecting Demon King fragments like candy, to the point that he’s recognized by the system as such. Of course, part of it was the great gods of the world outright speculating on his nature, specifically in light of him being able to break and consume souls (which /only/ the previous Demon King displayed the capability to do), which also doesn’t help his reputation.
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Furthermore, as far as they know, both of the sealed goddesses are “still” on Alda’s side, which would imply directly that a Demon King on Vida’s side would rather destroy them than attempt to turn them, regardless of their “actual” allegiances.
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Their worries are (on a technical level) well-founded. It just so happens a decent chunk of their information is incorrect.
Eddy
although it doesn’t fit with Van’s modus operandi to go so offensive, it has to be admitted that none of the other possible scenarios are good for them, for the goddess to be tricked or convinced by Van to join his side is even worse than destroying her for not being on her side, and the only thing that beats it is that Van takes her hostage to exchange for the captured gods, demigods and ancestors (I don’t remember if there are any left alive), which is not her modus operandi either, but hey, the only constant in Van is that if you give it a choice between a and b it picks a do e.
Doc
@ObserverBias I agree with much of that, though I will say while those reasons make sense for them to be wary of Van or against his potential threat, it doesn’t take into account Van’s actual actions so far.
Van has killed exactly 2 Alda faction gods. Curatos who was using the likenesses of his mother and friends to be killed over and over again in his dungeon and was actively trying to have Van killed once Van was in his dungeon. And Fitun, who was actively trying to kill Van and the human city behind him.
He’s saved numerous territories from evil gods that should have been Alda’s responsibility to do something about but didn’t. So these demigods are being pretty dense towards Van’s actions, but hey, plots gotta plot. Someone has to be in Van’s way or else there’d be no conflict.
bk3k
They are prisoners of their own biases, much like most of Alda’s faction.
Jonathan Hurd
I think its less that they haven’t thought Van could have positive intentions, but more that they can’t entertain the idea Van is not a horrible monster following in Guduranis footsteps. Alda quite a ways back did admit at least internally that Van isn’t actually that monstrous. The problem though for him is that if he accepts that Van isn’t pure evil then he can’t cast himself as pure good. Basically Alda’s problem is hes done too much. He’s crossed to many lines. The only option for him left is to kill everyone he has betrayed and/or attacked. He can’t bring himself to ‘forgive’ anyone and therefore can’t believe anyone would forgive him.
Alda is basically in this death match because he has forced the issue to this point. He needs more allies to back him up then. If people think Van’s not so bad and adding that Van can perma kill the unkillable gods… There are plenty of people that’d jump ship or stay neutral declaring its just Alda’s problem. He needs them to believe that Van is coming to kill us all so your best option is sticking with me.
Irazori
The adliots are too stupid to recognize all the actual good Van does. So they just mainly rely on baseless assumptions that are fueled from blatantly transferred grudges that stem from guduranis’ actions. Not to mention apparently have the same idiocy as nobles do by believing that having a telephone pole family tree is a thing to be proud of.
Nobody2
They died because Bellwood wouldn’t use nukes. And my point was he claimed they couldn’t use nukes because they owed it to give those people their land back but not only did he willingly sacrifice all those same people anyway he didn’t even try to fix the land. My point is he’s a hypocrite and liar because he says whatever he feels will get him his way while his actual motives are very different. Bellwood never cared about those people and he never cared about that land he just didn’t want to use nukes because their earth technology and he has a hatred of earth technology. But admitting his personal bias wouldn’t get him what he wanted so he pretended it was about the people and the land when it wasn’t.
Humble Bumblebee
What is it about Alda and Bellwood that appeals to the truly retarded. Was Bellwood a Retard Guider?
Skarbrand
From the way they talk about it, the opinions of Alda’s faction are a mixture of blind faith and influence from Bellwood.
Jonathan Hurd
I mean when you literally hunted down and killed everyone and anyone who had a differing opinion. Is it really surprising that the only people left alive are yes men and fanatics?
Seinvolf
Thank u always for ur great work…
^^…
EdgarJTC
Ok so these demigods and heroic heroes are supremacist like Nazis, their noble blood has ben tainted by this inferior creatures. Also yeah lets go and take the fight to Vans backyard, yeah go right ahead, take on his armies of pretty much every race in Bahn Gaia, adventurers, undead, members who can use demon descent, Sun God Talos, evil gods whos level of worship have brought their power back to the top. Ive always liked one sided slaughters of a@#holes.
ObserverBias
Well, let’s not twist the knife that far; they’re less supremacists and more local milita that are exceedingly difficult to reason with.
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Someone gave the world a weird definition of what pride was, as nobles are just as likely to fall prey to that mentality, and them witnessing the result of Vida’s actions didn’t vibe with them because it was not something feasible to them. They lack the understanding that there needed to be more living beings in the world that could inhabit it, and just focus on the “but the enemy?” part, despite having become allies.
Irazori
Nah, they’re totally supremacists. Why else would the aldiot empire exist but to be a reflection of their view of pro-discrimination and narrow-mindedness.
ObserverBias
The /empire/ exists because it’s the latest society to rise up in that area; according to the judgment of the Dark Elves, the Amid Empire and Orbaume Kingdom are hardly the first human societies to be in their locations, let alone the first to discriminate against those that aren’t humans, elves, or dwarves.
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The current state of it is due to the meddling of Marsh-man redirecting the fanatacism to his own ends as best he could, utilizing a claim to Bellwood ancestry for all it was worth. As we’ve been shown by the Legstons (and, honestly, the Hartners, from a different angle), there are those that could not care less for the rabid tendencies of others in their religious fervor, and even the Emperor himself was willing to easily discard of someone who was fanatic to a problematic degree (discarded a military relative to the Sauron duchy intentionally setting him up for failure).
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By and large, the views can shift and change (as shown by the rise of Alda’s peaceful faction and the revival of Vida’s ‘fundamental’ faction both), but it requires proper teaching and willingness to be taught both (which more recently can be seen by some of the chosen heroes actually being fans of what they’ve found in Morksi).
Irazori
Pretty sure it was mentioned that the aldiot empire was made by the aldiots to concentrate all their worshipers. The emperor may not have been shared the aldiots’ views, but still essentially did nothing to stop his country’s established state religion fanaticism from ruining lives, even to stupidly think that he could get Van to work for him by disregarding what said morons did to Van.
#
The Legstons are more neutral countrymen rather than aldiots, but the hartner’s were definitely aldiots after killing/robbing the Talosheim royals and also sending the remaining survivors to slavery on completely false claims and completely took advantage of their long lifespans.
#
The fake peace faction is also just plain superficial. I’m not denying the small improvements they actually did do to help recognized Vida’s races, but they still overall disregard the opinions of Vida’s races. Their dhampir token is just essentially them saying that “Vida’s races should just be our pets, so there’s no reason to fight them”.
no1
Thanks for the chapter Yoshi. So number 27 is basically a lab rat. The former researchers from Origin might be proud of Vandalieu for continuing death attribute research. I know Van’s position has switched from lab rat to researcher. The only difference was that he was an innocent child being experimented on. Also the demigods are still here. Hope to see round 2 soon. Thanks Yoshi
Jonathan Hurd
To me there is a fairly important difference in experimenting on people who made a living doing worse things than Van is doing to innocent people and kidnapping innocent people to do inhumane experiments on them for fun.
Every experiment Van is doing has a point. A lot of the time the Origin Scientists just tortured Van and the Eighth Guidance because they felt like it.
CyberDre
Gorn, I feel for you brother, it’s such a pain being surrounded by suicidal comrades, it’s almost like his people want to die, anyways thanks for the chapter Yoshi, didn’t expect it this early or the hentai cutscenes of prisoner 27, I always crack when people use bloody fool as an insult.
Hopefully Gorn joins Van’s side or at least survive long enough to the end of the story, someone this wise, needs to survive long enough to see the end.
Irazori
They’re not suicidal, just braindead moronic as their leader aldiot..
Shank Mugen
I wonder how Van will react to Luciliano’s experimentation lol
IRONMAN000elas
I believe his reaction is going to be, good now Undead can have children, now we this development we should work on a complete rejuvenation to their minds and bodies.
CAUSE THAT WAS THE POINT ALL ALONG. This is just a step in order to get to the already predetermined end result.
MrSweetPotato
Its one of THEIR projects, Van knows it well since majority of citizens of his country are undead and cant produce children atm, one of his friends even has the hots for a training Zombie female iirc but the reason she doesnt want to be with the guy is because she cant bare children for him, which probably made Van consider undead to bare children, also i think i read some chapters back he can make organs work again like the stomach and tongue so undead can enjoy food again, i’m not sure though its been a while since i reread.
Eddy
he himself has zombie and ghost companions, and seeing how expensive the resurrection is, this is cheaper and more efficient
MrSweetPotato
Its one of THEIR projects, Van knows it well since majority of citizens of his country are undead and cant produce children atm, one of his friends even has the hots for a training Zombie female iirc but the reason she doesnt want to be with the guy is because she cant bare children for him, which probably made Van consider undead to bare children, also i think i read some chapters back he can make organs work again like the stomach and tongue so undead can enjoy food again, i’m not sure though its been a while since i reread.
EdgarJTC
Van promised the undead to help them have children again like his adventurer buddy who confessed to an undead ancient hero who liked him but knew she couldnt give him children but Van assured her that he was doing research to give her that chance.
Lord Rin
Van already knows about the experiments. He’s the one who first proposed them. He wants Undead to have the option to be able to bear children when they’re in a relationship. Like his friend Kasim who is in love with the zombie elf Gerda and wants to date her but she doesn’t want to be in a relationship because she can’t bear his children. There’s also a bunch of women who’ve proposed to Borkus and Bone Man -neither want to have children but Van is still doing it due to misperception. And finally there’s Van’s own fiancees like Zandia, Jeena, Levia and Orbia.
Doc
@Lord Rin There’s a difference in proposing research into the subject and straight up pulling the same thing that robbed him of his free will and defined his core being.
This is the first instance we are told what that experimentation was, it’s not like Van was talking about this before.
ObserverBias
At no point did he install explosives into the criminals (that we’re aware of), so they retain their right to be disobedient (and in sequence, discarded if they become enough of a problem).
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He has discussed this before. Remember those scenes with living creatures being made to mate with undead creatures that had lifegold organs? Did you assume that was never actually going to matter?
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Like, geez, dude, nobody asked you to become TruePath11 2.0, but it looks like two chapters without comments turned you into that.
Doc
@ObserverBias So I see you take extremely vague statements as retroactive proof of unwilling human experimentation? At the time it could have been just as plausible they were having interested Talosheim citizens take part in the experiments to see if undead could produce life. There are certainly interested parties in the city.
Also, I’m sorry, did this story save your life or something? Is insulting me because I point out issues in something that has nothing to do with you the first place you go? Classy. Got a problem with my arguments, provide counter arguments and evidence for that. No need to act like I pissed in your cereal.
Jonathan Hurd
The thing is Van has never been merciful to those who hurt others. We’ve seen that since the beginning of the story. Van as ‘the undead’ slaughtered every Origin Scientist he came across. He would never hurt the innocent children they kidnapped and abused but he has never had an issue with hurting and using his foes.
I find it funny you draw the line at these experiments but Van has broken the Souls of people he hates. Isn’t that worse than what the Origin Scientists did technically. It’s effectively killing not only the person but every future that person could of had.
They did literally say in the undead animals mating chapter that they were going to capture bandits and start trials on live humans. It wasn’t just subtext I’m almost a hundred percent sure that was text.
Doc
@Johnathan Hurd The scientists that boxed children, treated them like lab rats until some of them died? Those scientists?
Regarding not showing mercy to those that hurt others, that’s plainly not true. He had the list of everybody who was in the criminal organization but only targeted those that were the ringleaders or most hostile members. He even repurposed the street level thugs under the “starving wolf”. I don’t see how this random body guard of a slave trader was any more deserving of torture than the many petty criminals Van didn’t punish. But hey, it’s fun to cherry pick to serve our arguments isn’t it. Mikail is a walking example of Van’s mercy, and that dude was directly responsible for hurting Van’s friends in the past and his spear nearly cost Van his mother coming back. Sure Mikail’s punishment was to be used as a training dummy for awhile, but at the time, he also didn’t have full self-awareness initially. He slowly regained his intelligence, and when he did, he was no longer used as a training dummy. In fact many of the undead/ghosts serving Van were his enemies at one point who hurt countless people in their lives. Van didn’t destroy any of their souls. In fact the only souls Van has destroyed were gods/evil gods that couldn’t be stopped unless he did that, or reincarnators who would have just come back to attack him and his friends from Rodcorte unless he did what he did. The largest exception to Van’s relative hestitance to destroy souls being Heinz crew, who killed his mother.
Van’s general MO is he will listen to crimes reported to him from spirits, and he will deal with the perpetrator. How he deals with the criminal depends on the severity of what the individual did to the spirit. And like I told ObserverBias, my problem isn’t the torture in of itself. It’s how this torture was done that’s the problem. There’s lots of ways to skin a cat, the exact way he was personally tortured you’d think would be taboo. In the writing business, that’s generally what’s called “characterization”. If the shit done to Van is meaningless than why bother with it at all. Characters are allowed to grow past their personal traumas but usually there needs to be some attempt at addressing said trauma.
ObserverBias
@Doc
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What, and you presumed the people they captured (abducted) against their will suddenly turned around to be completely compliant volunteers for human experimentation without being guided? Sod off. Interested Talosheim citizens are those that volunteer (see the Dark Human/Dark Beastperson etc transformations via Blood Potion mentioned previously), and anything requiring torture was reserved for those captured.
.
While there are volunteers openly available, in Luciliano’s own words, this is not a test to see if it is merely possible, but to obtain more data. Once more with clarity, this was an offer made with potential freedom as the goal if it went well (conveniently, after it’s stated that Number 27 has reached a point where he might prefer death, which is a prerequisite to Van’s Enticement). Number 27 is the one that presumed it was BS and that he would be eaten, instead of asking for clarity (which is always the downfall of those taking deals they don’t understand in full).
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You’re being an idiot, that’s my counter-argument. The story has been rather clear that human experimentation on the living criminals that were captured, was happening. At no point did it claim they were all more than happy to oblige, nor did it claim any restrictions on how they were treated. If Van feels at-all conflicted about his own treatment of those human society would not bother to punish properly, it has gone unstated.
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Last I saw you, you were starting to take issue with how the gods regard his presence in Divine Messages when for relevant intents and purposes they’re wholly accurate. And now you seem to have developed some squeaky-clean image of the Death Mage who regularly breaks/consumes/Guides spirits of those that oppose/are defeated by him, and who makes use of the criminal element he has acquired through abduction to his own ends.
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But do go on about how the series suddenly pissed in /your/ cereal. If you haven’t been paying attention to what you’ve been eating this whole time, again, that’s on you.
Metazoxan
To be fair the divine messages were both right and wrong. They were right … but more from the god’s perspectives than anything and frammed in the worse way possible. There was nuance to it that they both intentionally and unintentionally left out.
That’s not to say Van is a saint or Squeaky clean either. But at least with the divine messages that was legitimately meant to be propoganda against Van.
As for the issue with experiemnts. The other things I didn’t see mentioend when I skimmed all of this is that overall 27’s treatment isn’t even that bad. Yes he’s a prisoner and yes he’s subjected to human experiments.
But the end result is he’s still totally alive, totally able to move and talk, and even apparently physically fit enough to make children. Meaning as far as human experiments go he’s damn near saintly.
As far as the argument about him taking issue with removing control or choice from people … he litterally borrowed inside a man’s head once to hijack his brain and make him into a puppet to use for cover … He certainly avoids hurting innocent people whenever possible. But if you aren’t innocent he’ll do whatever he wants to you if it suits his ends.
Like was said Earlier Van himself admits he’s insane. But he’s fine with it because as far as he’s concerned he’s doing what will help guarantee the survival of himself and those he cares about.
He does have his own rules he doesn’t break but “taking away freedom” isn’t one of them.
Doc
@ObserverBias Great approach to criticism. Triple down on the personal insults. Pretty much confirming that to you this story is apparently the Bible and to reproach it is the highest blasphemy. Your counter arguments all amount to “because I said so” and applying information said here to vague statements made in the past as if self affirmation is irrefutable.
Human experimentation does not necessarily mean torture, though you seem to think one can’t happen without the other. Human experimentation just means experiments with human test subjects. People can volunteer for said experiments. For the people that are in love with undead citizens, they’re the most invested in this research. And again, the issue here isn’t the what but the how. For people who were directly murdering innocent people (bandits, organized crime lords/enforcers in Alcrem) the mercilessness makes sense to a degree. This dude was just a body guard of the real asshole. Unless some spirit personally told Van this guy did some messed up shit, punishment does not fit crime.
As far as the dude’s misunderstanding, has nothing to do with what I’m talking about. All the setup for zombie orgy is whatever, we get it, ha ha, comedy.
McBurdock
Nah, the experiments are no secret, Luciliano is not continuing it because everyone is gone, he said essentially that every time he starts his research, Borkus drags him out to train on devil’s nests to harden his body, Van should be the first one expecting the report on this test’s results.
EZ_CRIMSON
not to mention with the demon lord familiars and massive network of security golems literally everywhere, it is retarded to think much of anything can happen in Talosheim and Van be unaware of it.
They basically live in a near perfect surveillance state.